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Post by MartinT on Oct 1, 2016 22:45:18 GMT
Beethoven Symphony No. 5, Kleiber, VPO, DG (perf 1975)
Perhaps the most well-known but also most accessible of all classical openings, but how many members know the real beauty and power of the rest of this symphony? I started listening to the 5th via an old Reader's Digest boxed set that my dad bought when I was around 13, playing it on headphones. I love it all but especially the 'sunrise' section at the end of the 3rd movement into the 4th. I've chosen the Kleiber recording because it's the most exciting performance of this somewhat over-recorded symphony. Listen to it freshly and marvel at the tight composition and sheer beauty of the writing.
I have the original CD, the double with Symphony No. 7 and a prized SACD of the same recording. All are compelling arguments for this superb Kleiber performance.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 7:58:22 GMT
I saw Osmo Vänskä conduct the Minnestota Orchestra in August during this year's Edinburgh Festival. I was struck by the variety of themes in the symphony - it's almost like you get several symphonies for the price of one, but with an underlying coherence.
There is a reason why it's so famous. A definite 10 from me, and a good choice for a Sunday morning.
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Post by pinkie on Oct 4, 2016 8:32:35 GMT
I'm trying to organise a decent listen to this version. My version is Hubert von Caravan's with the usual mob he conducts. But like Lawrence, I love the choice of music itself. Is the vote supposed to be for the piece or the performance?
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Post by MartinT on Oct 4, 2016 9:10:00 GMT
It's a good question and difficult with classical music as members rarely have the same version. Vote as you see fit but just let us know the version you listened to.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 11, 2016 7:59:03 GMT
Come on then, let's be having you! Maybe Beethoven's 5th is another Four Seasons, too well known to really listen to or comment on? Tell us what you think, good or bad...
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Post by pinkie on Oct 11, 2016 8:50:58 GMT
I'll make time for a proper listen - honest. Stuff has been happening. If I go from memory I'd be giving a 9. Only if you ask me to choose a Beethoven Symphony and grade 10,9,8,7 etc might I hesitate. 9th, 7th, 6th and 3rd - especially the 3rd would have me scratching my bum thinking.
But I'll try to find time for a proper listen before October is up
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 11, 2016 10:33:08 GMT
I'm giving it a solid 7.
Not the world's greatest Beethoven fan and not listened to this for a long time.
My only criticism might be the tempo of the opening movement - they seem to gallop through it at such a rate that it actually loses a bit of its power for me ...
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Post by MartinT on Oct 11, 2016 13:12:50 GMT
Kleiber does take it at a fast lick, but then Marriner takes his wonderful 3rd at a fast pace too. I guess I like that tempo for Beethoven.
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Post by Guest on Oct 11, 2016 14:50:21 GMT
I prefer Karajan's 5th, I have yet to hear the suggested recording but will hunt it out.
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Post by John on Oct 11, 2016 19:55:42 GMT
A 5 for me. Yes I know it is a classic but a lot of it fails to engage me. When it is good it is very good but it does not maintain that
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Post by MartinT on Oct 12, 2016 5:56:37 GMT
Thanks, chaps. Keep the comments coming...
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Post by jandl100 on Oct 12, 2016 7:09:04 GMT
Kleiber's is quite good, but is far from the only good way to interpret the 5th. It's got a hyped up, frenetic kind of excitement, but other versions go for more gravitas and sheer juggernaut power (which Kleiber rather skates over, almost turning it Mozartean). Personally, I think Karajan gets a better overall balance and is more exciting and insightful as well with the way he molds the phrasing. Interestingly, Kleiber and Karajan have almost the same timing for the 1st movement, but Karajan's superior phrasing makes it sound purposefully mature while Kleiber sounds a bit like an overexcited teenager, imo. OK ... so I'm exaggerating a bit for effect.  But the principle still stands. And where did Our Ludwig get the idea for the 2nd movement from?  It doesn't seem to fit at all well with the rest of the symphony. It's always seemed kinda weird, not to say limp, to me. And it goes on way too long. Knock off a couple of points for that. So I'd give 6 for Kleiber's effort and getting on for 8 for Karajan. (6 recorded in the poll). Of course, there are about a zillion recordings of the 5th to choose from. I've been sampling a few whilst perusing the forum (Jochum, Toscanini, Dudamel, Klemperer) and none stand up to comparison with the two Ks (Karajan and Kleiber). Ooo - listening to Chailly now. Faster than the 2 Ks, and very nicely done! Here's Karajan ... Here's Chailly ... |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 12, 2016 9:27:33 GMT
The Chailly really is too fast for me. It seems to race along, hardly giving you time to absorb it. Otherwise, it's a good performance by the orchestra.
The Karajan is very compelling. I'm listening to it some more.
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Post by jandl100 on Oct 12, 2016 9:59:08 GMT
The Chailly 6th Pastoral seems even faster - whizzzz - doesn't work for me.
Must admit that I am not a Chailly fan usually.
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Post by Slinger on Oct 23, 2016 15:51:49 GMT
Rather than say 'bloody fast" I'll turn into a reviewer for a moment and suggest that Kleiber manages to imbue this recording of The Fifth with a sense of urgency that perhaps references Beethoven's reaction to the occupation of Vienna by Napoleon's troops in 1805. Nah! It was just a bit nippy, but I enjoyed hearing it taken at this clip. A classic among classics and because it's so memorable probably neglected when looking for something to listen to. Thanks for the opportunity to reconnect with this piece and the fact that it prompted me to play Keliber's live reading of Beethoven's sixth, which is also quite brisk. 9/10
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Post by pinkie on Oct 28, 2016 12:24:58 GMT
I'm not sure its just sheer speed. It's not grumpy enough. It doesn't sound like this guy  The Kleiber is smiling. The Karajan is brisk but moodier. That said I listened all the way through to the Kleiber and really enjoyed rediscovering Beethoven. And I have a feeling that I just always like the version I first heard. Which for me was actually Bohm with the Weiner on DG. Now nobody is going to accuse that of speeding! Pity the recording is a bit flat by comparison with some of these. Also - I SO enjoyed this I have finally got SPOTIFY!!!! And hope to sort out the Pi and explore a bit more. One day. So even though I feel more comfortable with grumpier versions, just for the sheer joy of listening to some Beethoven again I give this version 8 |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 28, 2016 12:44:13 GMT
I have the Karl Bohm 9th (his last recording) and it's quite slow and expansive, but in a good way.
The most joyful reading of the 5th I have is by the Hanover Band, but it's a bit too raw at times, even dare I say it with some of the instruments sounding a bit out of tune at times.
Gunther Wand and Eugen Jochum are both pretty reliable for Beethoven readings across the symphonies.
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But the principle still stands.