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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 19:04:36 GMT
I have an issue Pinky that is ready doing my head in & a situation where i don't know where to turn..
I recently fitted an Heed 'Orbit 2' to my Systemdek 'II' [Airpax 9904 11 31813] i have an issue where the electronic 45rpm position is causing excessive vibration to the motor, cannot hear it on playback but can hear it when i go close to the deck, either it should not be happening.
I have listened to the deck with & without the supply..
with: The sound seems to be more extended highs & lows. Seems to have a sense of spaciousness, a more cleaner tidy picture. However i don't think i like this presentation compared to without the supply. If i were to fit a DC motor & supply i know i would create the same kind of improvements. This Vibration issue is a pain in the arse. Really don't know which way to turn. Improvements are not always improvements, but my hands are tied because i need the speed change facility.
I don't want to sell the deck on, i really don't but lifting platters off to change speeds in just plain laborious Stone age behaviour.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 20:14:21 GMT
I'd think twice before doing any mods that might harm any potential resale. If you can't find a solution to speed change, is there an electronic 2 speed deck out there that you'd be happy with?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 20:30:04 GMT
I chose to use this deck as i was fed up with conventional Rectangular decks made out of Wood or Wood composite. I also wanted a space saving Deck with small footprint. I remembered the Old Systemdek 'II' i bought in the 80's, remembered it was a nice clean sound with good bass output.Its totally mint condition. Im not doing any mods on it, its a matter of swapping a Capacitor on the Motor board, as i remember they are a bit high & wants something around .22uF. If anything the damage will be caused by using this supply at the moment. These motors are still available new tho. I wont go down the DC motor route cos i just don't like them anyway.
I have a 2 Speed deck but this systemdek leaves it standing, it's a more accurate sound & has a better bottom end to my ears.
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Post by pinkie on Oct 6, 2016 7:29:32 GMT
I'll have a go at replying on your speed change thread, andre, when the lightning backs off enough for me to get to my office
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 7:33:05 GMT
What lightning? Do we have a storm coming?
Is the FX3 really that much better then the FXR? Surely you would be better off waiting for the AK47?
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Post by pinkie on Oct 6, 2016 8:10:17 GMT
What lightning? Do we have a storm coming? Is the FX3 really that much better then the FXR? Surely you would be better off waiting for the AK47? or the F1? Or the 2nd coming? I don't really know how much better it is because I'm never happy evaluating those sort of things definitively on the factory system. It's prettier - and maybe if I sort out a proper top-plate and some spit and polish on the lid, then vanity will set in. And I don't really like spring bias, and the variable effective mass is tidier, and there are a couple of other things. And any trade up would be at favourable rates so its not quite such a folly. I think the real issue is where does all this nonsense stop? I fear I'm getting sucked back into HiFi for HiFi's sake instead of just enjoying the new LP's I've bought. That's inevitable when developing and prototyping (which is where all the blind testing stuff comes from - factory days) but I had a stable system I was happy to play records on for ages - without tinkering and changing, and I've no objections to going back to that state. It was my choice to explore that Vinyl engine thread, and I blame you personally since if you hadn't fiddled with that bloody DJ deck of yours, I would never have thought of modifying anything. I'm a "buy it from the shop" boy On vera - as we say in these parts And yes - cracker of a storm. One huge flash and crack was no more than a second gap - I make that about 400m - and we are nearly the highest point on this hill. The power went out with that one.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 8:43:58 GMT
You can blame me all you like, but it sounds like you have enjoyed your journey, and more importantly, the finished article. When we come down, I may have to pop my DJ deck in the boot for a little comparison.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 10:25:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 10:46:21 GMT
What is funny about that?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 11:03:49 GMT
Just a personal joke, where i cannot believe that Hi-Fi enthusiast take DJ toys seriously. That TT will be the polar opposite sound wise to Pinkys PT.
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Post by pinkie on Oct 6, 2016 11:34:17 GMT
Maybe not Andre. I've heard Kevins TT before and other modified Techies. His TT has an FX arm which shares most of the characteristics of mine, and I think the arm change made the biggest difference of all the bits of fiddling to the record player. The biggest difference might be the cartridges we are using. But it will be interesting - I haven't compared an SL1200 with all the mods Kevin has to my PT yet, and not in my system. I have the home advantage with the ESL63's. (And I might not let him use my shelf)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 11:44:44 GMT
Just a personal joke, where i cannot believe that Hi-Fi enthusiast take DJ toys seriously. That TT will be the polar opposite sound wise to Pinkys PT. Well, the advantage of the DJ toy is that the motor does not vibrate, and speed change is quick and easy. 😉
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Post by MartinT on Oct 6, 2016 12:02:39 GMT
In terms of deep bass, it's rare that a live concert has any. The exceptions are, for instance, Roger Waters whose gigs can pummel you with gut-wrenching bass, as is to be expected from a bass player with access to unlimited PA resource.
Classical concerts are different and depend mostly on whether there is organ called for in the music and whether the venue's organ is man enough. The Albert Hall's organ is very good whereas those of the Festival and Barbican Halls are feeble. A piece of Durufle on a good organ can produce some seismic stuff that is a challenge for a home system to reproduce.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 12:11:14 GMT
Just a personal joke, where i cannot believe that Hi-Fi enthusiast take DJ toys seriously. That TT will be the polar opposite sound wise to Pinkys PT. Well, the advantage of the DJ toy is that the motor does not vibrate, and speed change is quick and easy. 😉 Caused by the Power supply not the deck At least one does not have to replace over 50% of the deck to get it to sound ok
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 12:25:38 GMT
Well, the advantage of the DJ toy is that the motor does not vibrate, and speed change is quick and easy. 😉 Caused by the Power supply not the deck At least one does not have to replace over 50% of the deck to get it to sound ok The PSU that was added because it's a pain to change the speed. Just press the button... speed change done. Anyway, I have never heard a PT or ESL63s so even if Pinkies deck wipes the floor with my DJ toy, it will be an interesting experience. I am also keen to see how the Hana SL or AT33PTG/II compare to his Dynavector.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 6, 2016 12:31:36 GMT
Caused by the Power supply not the deck Well . . . no. There is one thing about the Technics that is world class and one thing that is latent good. The motor is a work of art, combined with a very clever circuit that generates the multi-phase drive to rotate it smoothly and with virtually no cogging. The deck also sports a superb sandwich construction (top plate/rubber/cast aluminium) that makes for a very dead plinth. The things that are less good are the arm (throw it away) and the platter (rings like a bell). Replace those and you're cooking. Replace the bearing and you're suddenly competing against some much more expensive decks. However, fundamentally it's a great base with which to work. You don't need to 'replace over 50%' of it to get a great performing deck, something that could just as easily be said about the LP12, but with that you're starting from a much worse base.
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Post by pinkie on Oct 6, 2016 12:42:01 GMT
Travel the limits of the known Universe, and you can't escape a discussion about Technics mods. I should have called this thread "Techipedia 2" Undoubtedly the SL1200 is an ergonomic dream compared with the PT - well just an ergonomic dream anyway. And I share Martins view that its weakest links are the arm and platter, in that order. Although I have had a fair bit of experience of quite significantly modified SL1200's - I've never heard a full monty , and never put it head to head with a PT. I am struggling like crazy for a decent memory to hang onto of the best of the Technics, to try to anticipate how this mini weeny "bake off" will go. I think I can be pretty confident the system will be different from anything Kevin has heard before, and if I choose my records, "special". We'll see. However - it is going to have to be complete record player against complete record player, and so who knows if its the cartridges or the paint on the plinth! Edit: I did get to talk motors with Owen, while the girls talked curtains and feature walls. I thought I understood most whilst it was happening, even though Owen will speak equations and treat the whole thing as a maths exercise - whilst I'm driving. But I forget it the minute he stops speaking. In essence - this cogging malarky - isn't as simple as rotational speed and number of servo corrections per platter revolution. It is also to do with the motor and platter effectively being one with direct drive, and therefore there being no belt decoupling of the pole "pulses". Apparantly B&O built a direct drive with current fed to the platter, which was hugely inefficient but effectively addressed this issue - but I have completely lost what I thought I grasped so well on Monday. He's back for skiing in February...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 13:03:26 GMT
You started the Techie discussion. 😉
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Post by pinkie on Oct 6, 2016 13:47:12 GMT
You started the Techie discussion. 😉 I did??? I blame senility. Or the booze. Actually both!
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Post by MartinT on Oct 6, 2016 14:56:54 GMT
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