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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 15:37:49 GMT
Well I read everywhere that Silver cable sounds bright, I think I have worked out why. The cost of Silver (Ag) is much higher than Copper (Cu) and this would effect the amount that is used, ok it resistance is lower but that not the reason. Using a thinner conductor will reduce the amount of current that can flow, and with the smaller diameter the effects of lets say Skin Effect will be pronounced and the cable will sound bright thin and not nice. Now with reduced current and with loses in crossovers the bass will be appear to be lower or the top end will scream at us this is a unbalance in the loading cause by the design of the speaker not the cable. So what are your thoughts?  OK Ag plating on Cu yes great idea but again we now have a outer conductor that is thin and great for speed and with a lower resistance, so how does this compare with just plain Cu or let say Gold (Au) plating or even the hard Rhodium (Rh) plating with it's great toughness compare to Cu but crap resistance relative to Cu. So back to you more thoughts? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 15:43:03 GMT
Never liked Ag cable. Preferred Cu cable, However i do have Ag plated Cu wire in my Pick-Up arm!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 15:44:12 GMT
Never liked Ag cable. Preferred Cu cable, However i do have Ag plated Cu wire in my Pick-Up arm! Thin wire light current load so I see no problem. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 15:46:41 GMT
There no problem at all 33Awg. it does not bother me like an Interconnect would..
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Post by MartinT on Aug 31, 2016 19:28:23 GMT
Pure Ag can sound wonderful - detailed and natural, plated silver less so. However, even that is a generalisation. It really depends on construction and purity.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 19:36:37 GMT
Pure Ag can sound wonderful - detailed and natural, plated silver less so. However, even that is a generalisation. It really depends on construction and purity. Geometry plays a massive part and the insulator, The configuration stayed the same on a test I did and I found silk to be best, then Kevlar then PTFE but best of all was air gap, I also tried Mercury filled, it was interesting but not safe I wanted to try Woods Metal but never got round to it. The worse was iron followed by Aluminium and Magnesium pure yuk, Titanium was tried but stupid costs and not that good. So now for the extreme test, liquid Sodium maybe or liquid Helium but again costs.  Also I found out years ago with Inca Tech Mains Plugs, Gold plated on Copper just caused atom migration so you need a blocker like Nickel, after 2 yrs the Gold is adsorbed into the Copper and looked crap. So now I am trying another method that should reduce energy lose in the cable by about 25%, OK this is small but as the frequency goes up the loses get worse., and no top end. The same technique I tried with mains cable and it proved to be fantastic so it will be out soon, when the tool is made correctly phew, money money. I did the air gap plus PTFE with TQ it worked well but this new idea I think is much better. ( but then I would !)  |
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Post by ChrisB on Aug 31, 2016 20:52:53 GMT
How would you use Woods Metal, Colin? Would you have to pour it in a molten state into a tubular mold with the wire pre-threaded through it?
Lots of lead and cadmium too - careful now!
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Post by julesd68 on Aug 31, 2016 22:14:23 GMT
It's funny, the only RCA interconnect that really made a significant difference in my system was Silver High Breed, which I don't think are made anymore...
It got panned by What Hi-fi for being too bright apparently but in my system it just had a more revealing, open quality about it that never sounded too bright to my ears.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 1, 2016 6:32:02 GMT
NVA's TIS cable uses silver alloy in core and shield and sounds superb. It suggests that there is a lot more to cable design and that generalisations cannot be made about cables.
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Post by Sovereign on Sept 1, 2016 13:03:07 GMT
Interesting topic. I really don't have too much experience with silver. The only silver cables I have used are NVA's LS6 and LS7 speaker cable, which is silver plated copper with teflon dielectric. The cables are excellent, but there is something appealing about solid copper if it is a good pure copper, sounding more relaxed and tonal accurate. The NVA cables are excellent and well worth a punt. I looked into making a pair of LS7 speaker cable but the raw cable is expensive stuff. Again my experience with silver is limited, show me a good silver cable and I'll give it a try.
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Sept 1, 2016 19:44:57 GMT
I use some silver foil I/Cs in my system. Haven't yet found anything that sounds better.
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Post by Sovereign on Sept 1, 2016 19:46:56 GMT
I use some silver foil I/Cs in my system. Haven't yet found anything that sounds better. Hi Ali, expand on this if you could, what's silver foil? |
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Sept 1, 2016 19:58:09 GMT
They have small thin silver foil in PTFE tube. I think the seller was called AG Audio. No longer sold unfortunately, otherwise I'd buy some more..
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Post by The Brookmeister on Sept 1, 2016 22:59:33 GMT
They have small thin silver foil in PTFE tube. I think the seller was called AG Audio. No longer sold unfortunately, otherwise I'd buy some more.. There is a guy still making silver foil cables chief. I have his number at work will text you tomoz. |
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Sept 2, 2016 4:04:34 GMT
Ok cheers Dave.
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Post by speedysteve on Sept 2, 2016 11:06:01 GMT
Silver (very pure), is for me the best conductor from MC cartridge to SUT to phono stage.
At line levels I prefer OFC.
I put this down to silver being a better conductor thus able carry the low voltage and currents better than copper.
But its only about 5% better.
Why this does not translate to line levels I do not know. Personal preference of tonal balance perhaps?
Avoid silver plated cables at all costs IME.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2016 18:12:09 GMT
Silver correctly implemented can work well and utterly no trace of hardness at all ask Martin our head honcho he may be able to elaborate
Dielectrics also play a part as Colin mentioned geometry also.
The TE cables use liquid to surround the dielectric, some use grounding leads and many plethora of ideas and devices, vibration control etc
Skin effect IMHO does not have a serious bearing until 100khz is reached had many a interesting discussing with lab techs at city university on this one lol
However there are commercial companies using nano carbon tech (non audio) this is where I feel the future will be also high quality / bandwidth wireless communication for low level signals just the mains cables playing the major role in the not to distant future
All is my personal opinion and with these things YMMV
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2016 19:03:24 GMT
Yes nano technology is interesting
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2016 19:35:24 GMT
Silver correctly implemented can work well and utterly no trace of hardness at all ask Martin our head honcho he may be able to elaborate Dielectrics also play a part as Colin mentioned geometry also. The TE cables use liquid to surround the dielectric, some use grounding leads and many plethora of ideas and devices, vibration control etc Skin effect IMHO does not have a serious bearing until 100khz is reached had many a interesting discussing with lab techs at city university on this one lol However there are commercial companies using nano carbon tech (non audio) this is where I feel the future will be also high quality / bandwidth wireless communication for low level signals just the mains cables playing the major role in the not to distant future All is my personal opinion and with these things YMMV It does have a effect on edges, and surprise surprise this effect the way we hear bass odd eh. OK it also effect harmonics and coil ringing in drive unit, also on oddly enough Piezo Ultra Sonic cleaners at 40KHz. And on Sonar as designed by our team at Plessey circa 1980,s. at 25KHz. |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 3, 2016 7:15:51 GMT
I certainly agree with the generalisation that good silver cables can outperform pretty much anything else, while poor silver cables can sound worse than copper. One thing for sure, having gone down various paths with cables, is that system synergy is very important and cables should be chosen carefully by listening, not on spec.
I have arrived at a mixture of Coherent 6D speaker cables, BD jumpers, Coherent 6D and MCRU No.9 power cables, Yannis ConnectLitz and NVA TIS interconnects, by listening and comparing. A natural, detailed and neutrally balanced sound are what I love and they do it as an ensemble very well.
Sometimes a BBC R4 speaking voice is the best test there is, and getting it sounding just like someone is in the room is quite an achievement.
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