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Post by steveeb on Jul 9, 2016 14:17:02 GMT
Could someone explain the limitations of wireless connection and whether the issues could be addressed in future. I'd say speaker cables are probably the biggest objection that women have to a system in a domestic arrangement, second only to large boxes  I find it ironic that the newest technical devices promote Bluetooth, etc as desirable virtues, yet whenever I complain about broadband download speeds, the first thing all investigators insist is that wireless connection is disabled and tests are made with ethernet direct cable connection, as if it's the biggest and most obvious limiting factor. |
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 9, 2016 14:37:48 GMT
For me it's a new technology they are still learning. Much better to come, maybe even a complete change as it develops I'd be happy without cables, good ones cost a lot of money !  Reading in The New Scientist one guy said you can take a strip light, stand under big power lines and it would come on ! No wonder mortgages are hard to com by under power lines |
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Post by Stratmangler on Jul 9, 2016 14:45:23 GMT
It depends on how fast your WiFi card is in your computer, how many of your neighbours are broadcasting WiFi on the same channel from their router, and how strong your signal is.
Most built in cards are 54Mbps, some are 150Mbps, and even fewer are 350Mbps.
Cat5e cable, properly installed can carry up to 3.5Gbps.
There are too many variables to contend with over WiFi for the ISPs to be able to cover all of the bases on the phone.
They would need to send someone experienced out to check each and every installation, and they are understandably reluctant to do so if they're delivering the appropriate service speed to the router.
You must also remember that most ISPs send out routers as a courtesy, and they're not necessarily the best in terms of WiFi signal strength and quality.
They're intended to get you going, and if your coverage isn't good enough it's down to you as the householder to go out and buy stuff that is up to the task in hand.
I do a fair bit of work for a few IT companies, and none of them make use of ISP provided WiFi routers.
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 9, 2016 14:52:48 GMT
Now that's very interesting about Routers.
Ours is ISP supplied and seems to have problems.
What is a reasonable value for money router in your opinion ?
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Post by Slinger on Jul 9, 2016 14:58:04 GMT
In the true spirit of hifi forums everywhere I'd like to address your question by giving you the answer to something you haven't asked.  From what I've learned in past investigations into the WiFi v Bluetooth stakes, WiFi has... 1 - Greater Bandwidth 2 - Higher Bitrate 3 - Greater Range All of those are 'perfect world' scenarios of course, but it would appear that Bluetooth is really a non-starter for high quality audio streams. When it comes down to it though, cables are just faster and less prone to interference. Having said that, I stream FLAC files from a computer upstairs to an amp downstairs with no problem. My speakers are, of course, still wired though and I'm not sure if there could be a passive solution to hooking up existing speakers wirelessly. |
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Post by Stratmangler on Jul 9, 2016 15:06:48 GMT
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Post by steveeb on Jul 9, 2016 15:16:06 GMT
That's interesting Chris, I'd not thought of improving the router. I ran with BT for a year and was quite unimpressed. Changed to SKY (similar promised speeds) and just used it without a thought, perfect. Except every 2-3 months they increased the price, cheeky monkeys. So we went back to BT and a 'new' service package. Absolute nightmare, signal strength was up and down like a whore's drawers. Each complaint to BT miraculously produced fantastic results - for a couple of days, then dropped off again. Recently the contract expired so we switched to Virgin. BT charged us to leave in favour of cable, which Virgin obviously encounter as a sales objection and paid the penalty. No issues whatsoever, back to simply using it and doing it's thing without drawing attention. We don't even have comparatively high requirements.
I used the term Wi-Fi but I really should have said wireless. I was thinking mainly about the possibilities to do away with speaker cables.
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Post by zippy on Jul 9, 2016 16:54:13 GMT
...I used the term Wi-Fi but I really should have said wireless. I was thinking mainly about the possibilities to do away with speaker cables. When you think that many hifi fanatics are trying to remove elements in the chain (fuses for example) I can't see that wireless speakers (that will work with a 'normal' hifi system) will ever be accepted fully as they imply the use of a wireless encoder at the amp end, and a decoder at the speaker end. However, I can imagine speakers with amps built in, attached to a home network by high speed wifi. They'd need mains cables of course so maybe there's no point. |
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 9, 2016 17:52:28 GMT
Thanks Will investigate Ooh that's a lot more dough. Is it that much better ? |
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 9, 2016 17:54:09 GMT
That's interesting Chris, I'd not thought of improving the router. I ran with BT for a year and was quite unimpressed. Changed to SKY (similar promised speeds) and just used it without a thought, perfect. Except every 2-3 months they increased the price, cheeky monkeys. So we went back to BT and a 'new' service package. Absolute nightmare, signal strength was up and down like a whore's drawers. Each complaint to BT miraculously produced fantastic results - for a couple of days, then dropped off again. Recently the contract expired so we switched to Virgin. BT charged us to leave in favour of cable, which Virgin obviously encounter as a sales objection and paid the penalty. No issues whatsoever, back to simply using it and doing it's thing without drawing attention. We don't even have comparatively high requirements. I used the term Wi-Fi but I really should have said wireless. I was thinking mainly about the possibilities to do away with speaker cables. BT and Sky Just say no Not sure about Virgin. I distrust everything with the Virgin name, but if Sir Beard sold out a while ago it could be ok. Look out for them pushing price rises, from one person I know who has Virgin and is impressed with the speed and service |
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Post by Stratmangler on Jul 9, 2016 19:50:28 GMT
Thanks Will investigate Ooh that's a lot more dough. Is it that much better ? IT support folk don't like flaky. Kit should do what it says on the tin. Ask Martin T. You get what you pay for, and you're paying for reliability with the Draytek routers. |
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Post by MartinT on Jul 9, 2016 20:05:13 GMT
You certainly get what you pay for, Chris, I totally agree. Equipment like Draytek or Meraki (we have deployed 84 Meraki access points at work) leave the cheapo ISP provided wi-fi routers way behind. I will put in a good word for the BT Home Hub 5, though, which is better than many, and comes free with Infinity.
Remember that wi-fi works over radio frequencies. Many people forget that this means your signal can change from day to day according to the weather, barometric pressure, etc. It can also be affected by how much steel is around you, thickness of walls, distance, other devices using wi-fi etc. Finally, the standards have changed - use wireless-n as a minimum now (b and g are obsolete, a is going that way) but 802.11ac is the latest and greatest.
Why do we use cabled ethernet for measurements? Because it's fast and relatively consistent. 100Mbps may seem slow by some wi-fi standards but it's far less laggy and suffers from less jitter. As a consequence, for streaming applications it can sound better.
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 9, 2016 20:43:57 GMT
Just Draytek and Meraki ?
Any specific models best or any to avoid ?
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Post by MartinT on Jul 9, 2016 21:29:47 GMT
Forget them for domestic use, Mike, unless you're prepared to do a lot of configuring. They are not supplied set up for anything as standard. Meraki is cloud managed and requires an annual subscription.
Understand what you have, first, and what it is about it that you don't like.
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 10, 2016 10:46:11 GMT
One certain problem is we had no broadband but all the lights were on.
Turn router off and on and broadband comes back.
I'll log when that happens next time/s
Doesn't help being up a country road off a country road.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 10, 2016 12:30:54 GMT
That happens to routers. Give it clean mains and make sure the firmware is up to date.
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Post by Stratmangler on Jul 10, 2016 12:55:22 GMT
It sounds like you're probably a fair distance away from the BT exchange.
I used to have issues like this with ADSL when I had a BT line.
I moved onto Virgin and the problems went away.
Do you have extensions off your master telephone socket?
Dodgy extension cabling can cause loads of problems.
Householders frequently begrudge paying someone to do a proper job, and consequently telephone extension cabling is usually a shambles.
I moved someone's master socket recently, and the increase in speed alone was quite startling. The circuit has gained stability too, because prior to moving the socket the router was hanging off a dodgy extension cable.
The broadband service they have is FTTC (Fibre To The Cabinet) fibre as well.
If your issue is simply one of distance from the BT exchange then FTTC fibre would be the cure if it can be provided in your area.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 10, 2016 13:10:03 GMT
I had my Openreach master socket moved when I had Infinity installed, so that the router is plugged straight into it. Gives me a reliable 70Mbps.
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 10, 2016 17:33:26 GMT
That happens to routers. Give it clean mains and make sure the firmware is up to date. Good mains ! Hadn't crossed my mind. Will look it over How easy for a Muppet to update firmware ? |
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 10, 2016 17:36:02 GMT
It sounds like you're probably a fair distance away from the BT exchange. I used to have issues like this with ADSL when I had a BT line. I moved onto Virgin and the problems went away. Do you have extensions off your master telephone socket? Dodgy extension cabling can cause loads of problems. Householders frequently begrudge paying someone to do a proper job, and consequently telephone extension cabling is usually a shambles. I moved someone's master socket recently, and the increase in speed alone was quite startling. The circuit has gained stability too, because prior to moving the socket the router was hanging off a dodgy extension cable. The broadband service they have is FTTC (Fibre To The Cabinet) fibre as well. If your issue is simply one of distance from the BT exchange then FTTC fibre would be the cure if it can be provided in your area. Thanks Not so far as the crow flies, say 2 miles. The cabling however is up and down various roads with the phone and the mains coming in overhead Had a very good sparky do the phones and broadband via a patch panel when the house was refurbed. We have Fibre to cabinet. I'll have a damned good look at our set up around the master socket and others |
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