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Post by miller65 on Feb 2, 2016 19:51:49 GMT
HI all New to the forum and just looking for a bit of advice and possibly your own experiences . I currently run a modified Marantz cd 63mk11 signature version which has had a new clock fitted , upgrade to the power supply , new capacitors etc but am looking to upgrade , unfortunately funds are a little limited at present and was considering as an option running my player through a dac possibly the Beresford Caiman . Basically would the Dac offer any upgrade in sound quality , appreciate the proof is listening but wondered if anyone had first hand experience with this combination ? I understand from Stan Beresford some of you are currently using the Caiman in your systems ? I am striving to extract as much detail as possible from redbook cd without loosing any of the dynamics ,for the record the rest of my system is Avondale S100 power amp , Lightspeed attenuator , Robson Acoustics Prima speakers .
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 2, 2016 20:21:15 GMT
Hi and welcome to TAS - I moved your post from the Show us Your CD Players thread to create a new thread of its own. This way it will get people's undivided attention!!
Cheers
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Post by John on Feb 2, 2016 20:28:55 GMT
What have you done to your CD player Hard giving advice when you modified The Caiman a great DAC but no idea how much difference it make
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Post by miller65 on Feb 2, 2016 20:55:47 GMT
The modifications were done professionally but unfortunately my technical knowledge is somewhat limited to say the least . My understanding is that the power supply was upgraded including new regulators and a large transformer , new clock fitted and large number of capacitors replaced . The various modifications done over a couple of stages have shown a definite improvement but I am now looking for the next step as I believe a more transparent sound is available I just cannot afford to spend what I assume would be £1500 + to show an appreciable difference , I have compared my player with a standard Audiolab 8200 and believe it shades this player. Just wonered if any members had any positive results using the Dac with mid priced or higher cd players before I commit ?
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 2, 2016 21:11:29 GMT
By all accounts, the new Caiman is a remarkable device for the price. I don't have one, but I do a couple of Stan's 7520s, an older model, which I use in applications other than my main system. From what I hear about the Caiman, though it's a long way ahead of the 7520. I'm pretty sure Martin will have tried his Caiman 2 with his expensive Ayre CD player, so I'm certain he will have an opinion on this issue.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 21:16:10 GMT
I'm not sure whereabouts you are located but I'd recommend trying to get a listen to a Beresford near you. you might find someone on this or another forum who can let you hear theirs
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Post by MartinT on Feb 2, 2016 21:31:19 GMT
Hi Miller It's hard to be certain what the answer would be for you. I can tell you that the Caiman-II run from a battery (about £230 in all) is a superb DAC in every respect and runs my Ayre C-5xe MP very close indeed in sound quality. In that respect, it's a world class DAC in a very inexpensive wrapper. How much better than your modded Marantz is hard to say. I do know that stanleyb will sell you one on the basis of a return, if not satisfied, for a refund. So your risk is low in order to be able to hear it for yourself. See also this thread for much more info.
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Post by John on Feb 2, 2016 21:31:56 GMT
Yes Andrew suggestion is the best way forward with this
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 2, 2016 23:45:07 GMT
It is a good one - why not tell us roughly where you are and there may be someone nearby...ish who could spend an hour or so with you and your CD player.
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Post by dsjr on Feb 3, 2016 11:32:21 GMT
Stan's a good man and will help I'm sure. Apologies for saying this, but the base Marantz unit is a jitter prone model from times when this aspect wasn't as fully understood. 'KI' just slapped some copper screws here and there and authorised some other not-really-necessary tweaks to an originally smooth and inoffensive sounding base player and what we ended up with is a harsh toned screamer that doesn't 'do' bass and with an output stage that fell flat if asked to work too hard - in my personal experience. Good upgrades at the time came courtesy of Musical Fidelity (spit! - for the way they treated their independent dealers), with the X-10D line buffer if the original output was used and the X series DAC was a big upgrade in musical terms. So, what do we do today, nearly twenty years after the 63-KI Sig was first inflicted on us? Adding a Caiman II would be a similar kind of upgrade as the MF X-DAC was, but you still have the base player there, which ought to be replaced at some point I think, internal tweaks or not. Another choice - and I have a sneaky feeling it would sound better in a big-player-on-the-cheap kind of way, is to see if you can loan a Denon 520 CD player - www.superfi.co.uk/p-10435-denon-dcd520ae-cd-player.aspx?VariantHid=21899&gclid=CPjQ0pa-28oCFUKeGwodLZMHyg . Very cheap to buy (far eastern construction costs are minimal today and Denon don't seem to have big ego's to pay). I think that if you compared one behind a curtain to any other audiophool confection, I wonder if you'd hear any difference at all, let alone how big... Rega players and DACs remain a favourite of mine, but again, warmth comes before true accuracy - jolly nice though with sparkly sounding cheaper systems... Do please forgive me if I don't pay lip service to domestic audio 'Gurus' like KI or that Westlake chappie, but time after time in my career in the dem room, they've let me down in only delivering promises, not actuality. That Denon has thirty years of damned good popular players behind it and I've seen and heard the progression with my own DCD 1520 battleship player (used now as transport) and the later, lighter but no less good sounding 1015, which I have as a spare - the mid noughties 820 series was excellent too and could embarrass an Arcam at nearly three times the price.
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Post by dsjr on Feb 3, 2016 11:38:43 GMT
By all accounts, the new Caiman is a remarkable device for the price. I don't have one, but I do a couple of Stan's 7520s, an older model, which I use in applications other than my main system. From what I hear about the Caiman, though it's a long way ahead of the 7520. I'm pretty sure Martin will have tried his Caiman 2 with his expensive Ayre CD player, so I'm certain he will have an opinion on this issue. I know the 7520 as a local pal has one in original Caiman form and it's really not that wonderful. It's still thin toned, spatially flat and a bit too 'clinical/literal' sounding, something Stan has worked hard to improve on I gather CD can be SO much better than this...
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Post by MartinT on Feb 3, 2016 12:57:00 GMT
The Caiman-II has nothing in common with the original Caiman and is in a different class sound-wise.
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Post by dsjr on Feb 3, 2016 14:27:42 GMT
I do know this, but I remember that all the attention on the original Caiman must have been based on prior experiences of low cost '5* Best Buy' models. The original Bushmaster DAC was a step forward in terms of tonal authority, air and space and I'm sure the new Caiman takes this further and not for a silly price either. Forgive me for being so down on the Marantz though, just still vivid memories...
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 3, 2016 21:04:35 GMT
Dave dsjr has his own experiences and views -- and they generally differ from mine! In my view Stan Beresford has always made good sounding DACs that excelled at their price point at the time. I've never heard one sounding thin, but I haven't heard them all, but I have heard quite a few. And the Marantz 63 series may or may not have more jitter than most, but to my ear they put in a convincing musical performance and I am not surprised that you have enjoyed yours. Like other folk here say, it's impossible to know what your modified Marantz sounds like so cannot advise on what would be an improvement. Try it and see! If you were reasonably local to me (Glos) I'd be happy to pop round with a couple of interesting DACs to see if you think that route may be worthwhile.
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Post by miller65 on Feb 3, 2016 21:05:31 GMT
Thanks everyone for your comments and input , further food for thought I guess . The Marantz player is the only one I ve owned and all my upgrades have been with other components , personally I do not find the sound unpleasant but do believe I can do better hopefully without too much outlay .One thing is certain all the modifications to the Marantz have shown a marked improvement giving me a better insight into the recordings and a clearer more detailed sound . Interesting your mention of Rega DSJR as I have fond memories of a Rega Planar3 turntable many years ago and often wondered what a Saturn sounded like , both as a standalone player and possibly as a transport ? Denon is not a player I have considered but really any purchase at the moment would need to be around £250 ish and even then I need to move a couple of old pre amps first I may well take the plunge and buy a Caiman 11 at what is a relatively low cost in hi fi terms and dependant on results possibly consider another transport at a future date , the further complication is that my pre amp only has one output and at some stage I intend to add a network player , so a Dac would if it works well solve a couple of issues .
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Post by dsjr on Feb 3, 2016 21:16:57 GMT
The first CD63's had a delightful musical and self-effacing quality which enabled them to be safely used with no fatigue and some real musical pleasure in quite advanced systems I found. Sorry Jerry, the CD 63KI Signature had some changes, some of which went into the standard players too ('OSE's and so on). These changes didn't, to my ears anyway, endear it to decent higher resolution systems and I sold them through most of the model's good life, mainly because WTF kept giving the sodding thing a 5* review :lol: Arcam hadn't sorted the Alpha 7 into the 7SE, which was a rather less grainy sound I remember, but it was fifteen years or more ago and for us anyway, the Rega Planet (plus Couple interconnect) blew them all away in my opinion.
The Caiman II is very inexpensive and Epiphany Acoustics may have something of interest - I say this because Jerry likes the Atratus III cables I believe and these would have been selected for sale using their electronics I reckon.
Good luck - and it's wonderful that many here would be happy to bring stuff over..
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 21:25:34 GMT
Aah, the original Planet. Such a lovely thing..............
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Post by stanleyb on Feb 3, 2016 23:24:29 GMT
I haven't heard the 63KI, but I do own a 63. It's used as a transport with a Caiman MKII. It's not a fair indication for a comparison between a 63KI and a 63, but with the Caiman used as the audio output path the sound if far more entertaining. If detail is a high priority on your list, then the Caiman is certainly far more detailed than the 63. But we have been here before. I remember the time when many Naim CDP owners were bolting one of my TC-7510 to the digital output of their £5K machine.
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 4, 2016 6:29:56 GMT
I haven't heard the 63KI, but I do own a 63. It's used as a transport with a Caiman MKII. It's not a fair indication for a comparison between a 63KI and a 63, but with the Caiman used as the audio output path the sound if far more entertaining. If detail is a high priority on your list, then the Caiman is certainly far more detailed than the 63. But we have been here before. I remember the time when many Naim CDP owners were bolting one of my TC-7510 to the digital output of their £5K machine. Haha!! - yes. I was selling a pair of £5k rrp Kharma speakers (FS price £1400, I think) and had a potential buyer round for a dem. He was very impressed by the sound on offer from the system and bought the speakers on that basis. He couldn't believe that the £100 Beresford TC-7510mk2 DAC was in use, and actually peered round the back of the rack to check that it really was Stan's wee baby that was wired up and making those glorious sounds! He bought a Beresford DAC as a matter of priority as well. StanB has always made good kit.
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Post by John on Feb 4, 2016 8:59:18 GMT
I think Stan offers a return policy so if it does not work for you then just return for a refund
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