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Post by DarrenHW on Aug 4, 2015 7:56:38 GMT
I’m in search of a new quintet or possibly septet of speakers. Due to a recent room rotation I am unable to use the Ditton 44’s I was using, this got me looking around for alternatives and OB’s is where I’d like to go. John’s advised the combination of Alpair 12P and Goldwood 1858 and I like this idea, however I plan on using them in what seems like a far from conventional application. I want to run 5/7 channel AV but it is space limitations that prohibit the use of the 44’s. As it is surround speakers that are causing placement issues I thought it best to start with the build (such as it is) of the surround speakers and if these prove successful move onto the front / stereo pair. This is the space I have to play with:   You’ll see the KEF Kit 3’s balanced on the Ikea units, they work better there than the 44’s but I’m sure if you’re reading this you’ll know what a crappy solution this is. I’d like to do away with the Kef’s and mount OB’s above the internal door opening. The wall above the door is 385mm high by 900mm wide and despite all other walls being solid masonry this is a stud partition. So what’s the consensus is this a suitable area for a small single full range OB? I was hoping to use 12P’s to keep the full range speakers the same all the way round but would I be better using a smaller speaker such as the 10P? Regarding the bass helpers, would it be possible to use just one using a Goldwood 1858 and an iNuke? The reason for this is I only really have space for one which would be behind the coffee table between the two recliners which is already less than ideal. If it’s not possible to run both channels into one bass helper any suggestions on placement for two helpers? I appreciate most AV processors cross surrounds to the sub at 80Hz but I would rather be crossing at 40Hz, this is how I’ve run with the 44’s as rears and far prefer the sound crossing over to the sub lower. |
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Post by MartinT on Aug 4, 2015 7:59:49 GMT
Worth thinking about in-wall rear speakers, such as the KEF Uni-Q?
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Post by Sovereign on Aug 4, 2015 8:00:21 GMT
Great thread, before I read the whole of your opening post I was going to offer you my Lampizator open baffles, as they are soon to be up for sale. But as space is limited they wouldn't be your first choice ;-)
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Post by John on Aug 4, 2015 8:17:58 GMT
Can I ask will you be primary listening to music , a even split or mostly films
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 8:29:12 GMT
The guys here are more rounded and opened minded with their suggestions on this forum than many others.
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Post by John on Aug 4, 2015 8:56:01 GMT
For the OBs worth considering James speakers They be bigger than the what I recommended but sound nice
I think for the rear spears something not so big that is easy to place close to the wall but no idea what
How do you plan to wire in the Stereo with the surround system
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Post by DarrenHW on Aug 4, 2015 8:57:07 GMT
Worth thinking about in-wall rear speakers, such as the KEF Uni-Q? With the exception of the section of wall above the internal door all walls are solid masonry. Can I ask will you be primary listening to music , a even split or mostly films Mostly AV, but the primary focus of the front / stereo speakers is music and if possible I'd like all speakers to use the same drivers. The surround speakers will be primarily movies only, my collection of 5.1 music is growing but very slowly. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 9:00:28 GMT
Darren
For correct sonic integration you will require the center channel speaker to match which ever speakers you choose for stereo duties. Matching tonal quality of the three front speakers is paramount for speaker integration within a multi-channel system.
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Post by DarrenHW on Aug 4, 2015 9:06:59 GMT
For the OBs worth considering James speakers They be bigger than the what I recommended but sound nice I think for the rear spears something not so big that is easy to place close to the wall but no idea what How do you plan to wire in the Stereo with the surround system I've no idea what Lampizator P17's are? I really like your original plan, simple build, no xo, off the shelf drivers etc... As to wiring in stereo see here theaudiostandard.net/thread/1515/billy-super-sounds-70 for AV everything connects via the Nak, for stereo I swap speaker cables and connect to the Quads. I should have said in the OP I'm thinking of building 2 baffles, one mounted up high for the FR and one on the floor for the woofer. |
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Post by DarrenHW on Aug 4, 2015 9:10:34 GMT
Darren For correct sonic integration you will require the center channel speaker to match which ever speakers you choose for stereo duties. Matching tonal quality of the three front speakers is paramount for speaker integration within a multi-channel system. Yes, that is my intention (although that's also a challenge), if possible I'd also like the surrounds to match or at least be from the same product range. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 10:02:52 GMT
Hi Darren
Although it is desirable to have the rear effects speakers matching it is of far less importance imho.
A few years back we installed a large home cinema system, the customer was using Focal Utopia speakers, though at the time they did not produce any dedicated Utopia surrounds, however the Electra range had some dedicated units which made for a great pairing and is still in use today.
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Post by John on Aug 4, 2015 10:19:22 GMT
I never properly listened to AV open baffle set up even though a friend has this set up (we always listen to music)
Perhaps with the amount of use via AV it might be worth going down a more traditional route
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Post by DarrenHW on Aug 4, 2015 10:44:52 GMT
Just to clarify what I'm thinking I've knocked up a crude image:  The circles are the proposed location for 12P / 10P, aimed towards the listening position. The square with a circle in it is the proposed location for a single 1858 which can be up to 1000mm from the rear wall and firing forwards. |
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Post by DarrenHW on Aug 4, 2015 10:58:45 GMT
Hi Darren Although it is desirable to have the rear effects speakers matching it is of far less importance imho. A few years back we installed a large home cinema system, the customer was using Focal Utopia speakers, though at the time they did not produce any dedicated Utopia surrounds, however the Electra range had some dedicated units which made for a great pairing and is still in use today. I know what you're saying but if I'm going to use Alpair 12P's for the front 3 I'd like to stick with paper cones for the surrounds which as far as I can see only gives me the option for 12P or 10P. Using 12P's would be preferable as these can then be dropped into a baffle at the front to experiment with as stereo speakers. I never properly listened to AV open baffle set up even though a friend has this set up (we always listen to music) Perhaps with the amount of use via AV it might be worth going down a more traditional route I take your concerns seriously, after all the 12P/1858 combo was your suggestion, but what about the Bob SL threads you directed me to on the Hawthorne forum? AV is not the only reason I'm interested in OB's. The seating positions in the lounge are too far apart for good stereo imaging, I've read that OB's provide a far bigger centre image, if so that's as good a reason as any (for me anyway) to pursue this. I'm not trying to start an argument here, I asked for advice and if this is the advice I'm getting then I'll reluctantly accept it but I really would like to give OB's a go  . |
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Post by John on Aug 4, 2015 11:13:07 GMT
No worries Darren
At the time we were talking about different OB designs I still like the recommendation of the Alpairs and Goldwood
Yes OBs image really well
Perhaps some pros and cons
Pros
Easy to build
Amazing value to performance ratio
Good sound stage and once you get used to the bass hard to go back to traditional speakers
Simple set up
Cons
OBs are big and will take up space
I am not sure how easy to integrate the centre channel
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Post by DarrenHW on Aug 4, 2015 11:40:18 GMT
Yes, the centre would prove problematic too:  I'm guessing in front of the fire would be a disaster so was thinking of wall mounting above the TV, crossed to the sub with no bass helper? What are you thinking, is this just the wrong environment for OB's for AV? |
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Post by MartinT on Aug 4, 2015 12:10:48 GMT
Imaging is so dependent on factors like where the speakers are in relation to the corners and walls, and what furnishings are in the middle. I have a TV in the centre on the wall, rather like yours. You have to see whether its large surface interferes - easily tested, just cover it up with a heavy drape and listen. I had an absorbent room treatment panel made for my TV.
I have a preference for a rather dry, dead room compared with many listeners so my room treatment is set for high absorption. This does help to focus imaging even if your speakers are quite far apart. Another thing which helps is to toe-in the speakers.
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Post by DarrenHW on Aug 4, 2015 12:31:53 GMT
I share your concerns about the TV, then there's the fireplace and it's associated masonry to consider. I have no doubt the TV is detrimental to the sound, I did have it between the speakers and noticed an improvement moving it up but I'm sure it still has an undesirable impact. I've got the best out of speaker placement that I can and this was the reason behind the room rotation although it seems I've improved stereo imaging and bass interaction at the cost of all the other speakers.
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Post by John on Aug 4, 2015 15:11:51 GMT
The OBs are great with music
I be going to see my friend end of the month I will ask him to demo the AV side of his system as would be very similar to the OB set up you thinking about
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Post by DarrenHW on Aug 4, 2015 16:32:12 GMT
Thanks John, much appreciated.
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