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Post by DarrenHW on May 16, 2015 8:59:48 GMT
Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how come some speakers have slam and some don't?
Where does it come from? I thought it would all be in the bass driver but I've read some threads that say the mid is also part of the equation as most of the "action" occurs above 70Hz?
How does the cabinet come into the equation, are some designs better than others?
Is there a trade off between how low a speaker can go and how hard it can it hit?
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Post by MikeMusic on May 16, 2015 9:35:41 GMT
The greatest slam I had from my lovely Isobariks was when I put in the P10 regenerator.
Any mains change gave similar.
Different supports for the kit and the speakers help a lot
The Isobariks are probably my weakest link now but deliver an awesome punch.
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Post by ChrisB on May 16, 2015 9:53:42 GMT
It's not a stupid question. However, I'm going to offer a stupid answer! To add slam to your speakers, surely you need the right recording.....? Any of these will do:  |
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Post by ChrisB on May 16, 2015 10:03:31 GMT
My sensible answer is that it's not all in the speaker - the amp and how it controls the speaker will surely have a big influence here?
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Post by DarrenHW on May 16, 2015 10:34:44 GMT
The greatest slam I had from my lovely Isobariks was when I put in the P10 regenerator. Any mains change gave similar. Different supports for the kit and the speakers help a lot The Isobariks are probably my weakest link now but deliver an awesome punch. Mike, I find your reply quite exciting. I have addressed my mains a well as I can (the house I currently live in comes with the job and I'll only be here for another 12 months or so), 4mm ring main, unswitched MK single sockets, no dedicated earth. Disclaimer: 4mm was the largest wire I could use without ripping out half the kitchen, it's a ring as opposed to radial due to wire gauge and I also have the kitchen system plugged in at the other end of the ring, I will disconnect the link between kitchen and lounge to create 2 radials as an experiment at some point, but this really is as far as I can go at the moment. I'm a fellow Mana user and I completely agree with what you're saying about the difference supports can make, I've recently been playing with different materials for the shelves. My favorite is 15mm slate on spike shoes on spikes for the valve pre / phono stage and 15mm slate on sorbathane on 40mm oak block board directly onto the spikes for the Oppo (used as a pre with FBA / CD). I found these combinations improved the clarity and soundstage but did rob me of some of the slam, this was a trade off I was happy to make. Both now have RDC footers which you recommended to me in a previous thread here  . Now on to why you've got me excited... I acquired and recapped a pair of KEF KIT3's a few weeks ago I love how they sound compared to my Ditton 44's (both have been recapped with Alcaps, rewired with Van Damme Blue and sat on the same stands). They're more detailed, natural and integrate better in my room. There is however one facet I'm not happy with, SLAM! The KIT 3's are in very poor (and for my application inconvenient) DIY cabinets so I've been looking into alternative cabinet / xo designs but one thing that keeps recurring is the opinion that the B139 will go low but won't slam. I believe the Isobariks are Linn's implementation of the KEF drivers? If are you saying in the Isobarik configuration they've got slam? It's not a stupid question. However, I'm going to offer a stupid answer! To add slam to your speakers, surely you need the right recording.....? Any of these will do: Chris, I have top left, top right and bottom left, that's why I'm missing the slam of the 44's  . To your second reply, I'm using the same amp with both the 44's and the KIT3's. Apologies for the long response, I just wanted to clarify my setup. |
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Post by DarrenHW on May 16, 2015 10:41:46 GMT
Whilst looking up Isobariks I found this:  "Just sit still, what's the worst that could happen?" |
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Post by zippy on May 16, 2015 10:52:43 GMT
The 'slammiest' speaker I ever had was the old Mission 770. The upper bass/lower midrange really used to hit the spot with the right recording.
I think it's because they were easy speakers to drive, and the cones had quite a big travel distance so could move a lot of air, quickly. Or maybe it was the polypropylene construction (novel in those days).
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Post by John on May 16, 2015 12:03:56 GMT
For what gives my system excellent slam is the mid bass energy of my speakers I heard a few speakers that can do this Sovereign Open Baffles Speedy Steves Horns, Greg Open Baffles, Martin Ushers and the TAD Reference 1 (the DIY speakers are all pretty big although Greg speakers are not to big but will cost a lot more to make and the other two will cost a fair bit)
I agree that suitable amplification helps
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 14:30:13 GMT
I reckon it's a combination of a decent sized cabinet and driver combined with a hefty sounding amp and a good source. I think it needs source, amp and sppekers (and cable) to be right.
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Post by John on May 16, 2015 14:53:17 GMT
Just listening to Dream Theater right now and getting some amazing kick drums form the system that I can feel in my gut.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 18:56:46 GMT
I reckon it's a combination of a decent sized cabinet and driver combined with a hefty sounding amp and a good source. I think it needs source, amp and sppekers (and cable) to be right. Agree, the amp has to be up to the task. |
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Post by John on May 16, 2015 19:31:07 GMT
Being up to the task will very. Neither Speedy Steve or myself (apart from how we control the low bass) use really powerful amplifiers as we both have high sensitivity speakers, yet we have plenty of slam. Whilst Martin needs a lot more headroom and plenty of grip to get the best out the Ushers
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Post by speedysteve on May 16, 2015 19:57:30 GMT
Bass slam in my system has increased massively going for the bigger high damping factor amp of the Behringer Inuke pa amp. The immediacy of the stop start is what gives slam. In my system it is controlling the 15" cones so they can move the kg + column of air in the horn. That couples to the room efficiently and moves the air giving wave pressure. Bear in mind these are working from 20hz to 90hz +/- 0dB. At 90Hz there is a 4th order X/O dealing with them. Then the mid bass horns come in. I'm still looking for the best amp for them... Zzzz Across the freq range I find that compression drivers give good slam of say snare drums etc. Folk who have not heard this before often say, "I can feel the pressure". Slam tracks off the top of my head Another brick in the wall. Certain Yello tracks Certain White stripes tracks Walk this way Run DMC / Aerosmith Come together Beatles The Jack / Back in black ACDC To name but a very few. Have horsepower will use it. |
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Post by Mr Whippy on May 16, 2015 20:18:44 GMT
Lovely slam…
Wonderful slam…
Lovely slam…
Wonderful slam…
But what about GRUNT!?!
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Post by gazjam on May 16, 2015 20:25:49 GMT
What's the difference? |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 20:25:53 GMT
Being up to the task will very. Neither Speedy Steve or myself (apart from how we control the low bass) use really powerful amplifiers as we both have high sensitivity speakers, yet we have plenty of slam. Whilst Martin needs a lot more headroom and plenty of grip to get the best out the Ushers My exposure isn't the most powerful power amp around but it has excellent and tight grip which controls all speakers I've tried on it with ease. i sometimes wonder whether power is relative in the hifi world. |
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Post by Mr Whippy on May 16, 2015 20:51:44 GMT
What's the difference? Pigs don't SLAM" |
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Post by gazjam on May 16, 2015 21:08:54 GMT
What's the difference? Pigs don't SLAM" Egg, sausage bacon and slam? |
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Post by MartinT on May 16, 2015 21:18:55 GMT
System speed, lightweight drivers, fast amplifier, air moving ability.
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Post by John on May 17, 2015 4:42:48 GMT
For me controlling the bass with a high damping factor amp gives me the foundation for the rest of the system I have big 15" drivers but I cut them off quite low around 60 with quite step slopes this allows everything to hang better together across the frequency range making the music sound more natural. Most of the energy seems to come a bit higher up than than that but adding the 60 to 20 in just gives more foundation to everything and every now and again you can feel that lower frequency rumble in your body
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. To your second reply, I'm using the same amp with both the 44's and the KIT3's.
