|
|
Post by jazzbones on Mar 11, 2015 11:27:40 GMT
There has been alot of debate and angst concerning various cables that connect and link the individual items of our Hi Fi equipment. Quality and cost of mains, plugs, fuses and interconnects have been discussed and argued over and over again amongst those that believe that quality of a piece of wire does make a difference to those who fervently feel that any old bootlace will do. Now the most important link, after all else (for me) is the wire that carries a feeble signal from my pickup cartridge down the tonearm to the IC to Control amp to reproduce the audio signal itself. The tonearm cable is not talked about or argued about in any greater detail apart from the fact that, with time, it may need a renwal/re-wire, why does this not come up for debate as much as the other wires required?
I use both a Van Damme and a John Rogers SME/BNC arm lead, neither of which is ultra expensive but I am forever open to being re-educated.
|
|
|
|
Post by danielquinn on Mar 11, 2015 11:57:53 GMT
The reason not much is talked about as the techies on here all use detachable headshells and that is in itself a source of musical information lossand thus they are in denial .  the of importance of this loss of musical information is up to you , but spending £50 on a fuse and £100's on mains wire is truly luduicrous in the face of a tone arm with 2 sets of gold plated metal pins at the headshell , possibly some more at the point were arm meets pivot and 2 more at the base . best solution is one piece of cable from tonearm to phono amp . |
|
|
|
Post by julesd68 on Mar 11, 2015 12:41:18 GMT
I use a Cardas cable that came supplied with the Kuzma arm - never occured to me to change it as I've never compared it to something else!
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Mar 11, 2015 12:53:34 GMT
I've performed a lot of comparisons between arm cables and the one I am using - Yannis 423.5 Silver PhonoLitz - is the best I have come across, even including some very expensive ones from Oyaide, Jelco and Dynavector. Price depends on choice of plugs but is certainly more reasonable than many for what is a hand-built cable from scratch. The Yannis is essentially neutral with no tonal tilt and is exceptionally detailed and transparent. |
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Mar 11, 2015 13:17:52 GMT
Another vote for Yannis
Great VFM, no silly VFM !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 16:49:15 GMT
The reason not much is talked about as the techies on here all use detachable headshells and that is in itself a source of musical information lossand thus they are in denial . Factually incorrect.  |
|
|
|
Post by danielquinn on Mar 11, 2015 17:29:50 GMT
Your opinion is noted.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 17:32:57 GMT
The reason not much is talked about as the techies on here all use detachable headshells and that is in itself a source of musical information lossand thus they are in denial . the of importance of this loss of musical information is up to you , but spending £50 on a fuse and £100's on mains wire is truly luduicrous in the face of a tone arm with 2 sets of gold plated metal pins at the headshell , possibly some more at the point were arm meets pivot and 2 more at the base . best solution is one piece of cable from tonearm to phono amp . I don't know if your last line is true or not, but some people I normally trust the judgement of would disagree. Aren't the jobs they do slightly different? Internal wiring can't be too hefty and also has to be flexible if it is to avoid affecting the arm. External cable can be more robust and maintain more low level signal integrity without having to meet the needs of internal cable. There appear to be two schools of thought at the very least. |
|
|
|
Post by danielquinn on Mar 11, 2015 17:44:27 GMT
That is a practical issue not a sq issue.they don't do different jobs. Just mount your phono amp close to your tt .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 17:54:09 GMT
Richard Dunn for one would disagree with you  ask him if you like. Edit: I have always like the idea of the original ArtaXerxes because of the proximity to the signal source. Some people use amps with built in phonos though, so they will struggle to move the amp really close. |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Mar 11, 2015 18:03:19 GMT
The reason not much is talked about as the techies on here all use detachable headshells Since many Technics decks acquired for hi-fi replay have had the arm replaced, your generalisation is specious (the first arm on my Technics was not detachable). Further, I disagree that the headshell joint is the most important aspect of those arms, seeing as their characteristic sound is quite identifiable 'despite' having a physical joint. Finally, in my case, the joint is incredibly close to the pivot and can be considerably tightened.
I can assure you that it reveals arm cable differences quite adequately! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 18:38:49 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by danielquinn on Mar 11, 2015 20:26:14 GMT
That is laughably rubbish. So thin wire is okay for inside the arm but is bad as soon as it leaves the arm
Additionally my arm cable is 13 inches from cartridge clip to phono amp and is hard wired to the phono amp.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 20:31:56 GMT
That is laughably rubbish. So thin wire is okay for inside the arm but is bad as soon as it leaves the arm. Said by a number of people who rewire tonearms and others in the industry including this chap on more than one occasion: "Primarily I believe in hard wiring, but in the case of arm leads I go against that. I believe (especially in the case of suspended or decouple turntables) that the arm lead contributes physical characteristics to the system of arm and suspension, so limits or defines the usable cable. In this case it is my belief that it is far better to take the fine arm leads directly to a pair of phono sockets fitted to the plinth of the TT (because no one takes any notice of my SMA recs) and a earth terminal. Then non flexible and other physically challenged but maybe more musical cables can be used. This for me is one of the reasons the arm system on the PL71 works so well is that it does this." www.hifisubjectivist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=45558&p=77839&hilit=Arm#p77839 |
|
|
|
Post by danielquinn on Mar 11, 2015 20:49:27 GMT
That is not agreeing with you and is a million miles away from what Barker said.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Mar 11, 2015 20:51:23 GMT
Another vote for Yannis, easily the best I've heard to date.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 21:05:41 GMT
That is not agreeing with you and is a million miles away from what Barker said. Remember I said I didn't know enough to take a view. I was just putting another side. I don't see RDs comments as as a million miles away at all. Like Mark Baker, he recognises in the quote that thin flexible cable is necessary for internal wiring but can be bettered as soon as it's practically posiible to change. Unlike your stance, he also recognises that whilst hard wiring is desirable in most circumstances, he is against it for tonearms. That's not the only time he's said it and it's certainly in direct disagreement with you, not only over hard wiring but also over the Desirability of using a different cable externally. Why be so certain there's only one way? I have great respect for J7 at Audio origami who also uses separate wires for the same reasons. Here's one of his rewires www.audioorigami.co.uk/archive/alphason-hr100-rewire/As I said, not everyone can use a very short lead, especially if they have a phono stage in their amp. Your initial claim about what is best was not limited to your circumstances involving very short wires. Many people who have a wealth of experience in tonearm rewiring feel that the thin flexible leads necessary for internal wiring are not ideal and do not protect the tiny signals well as more robust cables. Origin Live make incredibly good arms IMO and transform the stock Regas. Audio Origami (J7) works wonders with anything he's given and he's one of the most genuine guys you will meet. RD tends not to spout about stuff he doesn't understand and he's certainly no fan of marketing gimmicks. I just feel it's wrong not to at least recognise these views, hence my counterbalancing arguments. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 21:15:41 GMT
It's not an opinion. You are wrong with your original statement. My Technics does not have a removable headshell.
|
|
|
|
Post by danielquinn on Mar 12, 2015 8:33:25 GMT
Apologies cagey but given your preferred choice of speakers and the fact you prefer an at95e over a ortofon 2m black . I forgot you existed. In my humble opinion your speakers are masking the fact the at95e is fine until you hear a better cartridge and then it is garbage. |
|
|
|
Post by danielquinn on Mar 12, 2015 9:16:55 GMT
That is not agreeing with you and is a million miles away from what Barker said. Remember I said I didn't know enough to take a view. I was just putting another side. I don't see RDs comments as as a million miles away at all. Like Mark Baker, he recognises in the quote that thin flexible cable is necessary for internal wiring but can be bettered as soon as it's practically posiible to change. Unlike your stance, he also recognises that whilst hard wiring is desirable in most circumstances, he is against it for tonearms. That's not the only time he's said it and it's certainly in direct disagreement with you, not only over hard wiring but also over the Desirability of using a different cable externally. Why be so certain there's only one way? I have great respect for J7 at Audio origami who also uses separate wires for the same reasons. Here's one of his rewires www.audioorigami.co.uk/archive/alphason-hr100-rewire/As I said, not everyone can use a very short lead, especially if they have a phono stage in their amp. Your initial claim about what is best was not limited to your circumstances involving very short wires. Many people who have a wealth of experience in tonearm rewiring feel that the thin flexible leads necessary for internal wiring are not ideal and do not protect the tiny signals well as more robust cables. Origin Live make incredibly good arms IMO and transform the stock Regas. Audio Origami (J7) works wonders with anything he's given and he's one of the most genuine guys you will meet. RD tends not to spout about stuff he doesn't understand and he's certainly no fan of marketing gimmicks. I just feel it's wrong not to at least recognise these views, hence my counterbalancing arguments. You seem to be relying upon a few audio myths . You claim is that transfer from thin to thick [ if hard wired ] is more beneficial in respect of sound quality not just logistics and practicality . How ? 1] How does transferring the audio signal from tiny wires to thicker wires protect the tiny signal ? This is intuitively nonsense. 2] I am in agreement that the transfer from thin to thick for want of a better phrase is practically better , we are on about sound quality .My system is entirely hard wired , i dont do practical . |
|
ask him if you like.
